The Blueprint for Team Resilience in Uncertain Times

Speaker 1: 0:00

One of the things that I've seen throughout my career is how easily toxic cultures can slowly be cultivated by people not being direct with one another, and so that for me, I wanted to nip that early and say we respect each other enough to be direct with one another, to communicate clearly and directly and take ownership for what we should take ownership for.

Speaker 2: 0:27

Welcome to the Executives Edge podcast. Discover what gives today's most successful executives their unique edge and propel your business to new heights. Hey, Heather.

Speaker 3: 0:37

So curious about. I look at your background and I see nothing but resilience. And I was just curious. You made a recent pivot to what you're doing, a few years ago, but what have you done? What kind of experiences, what kind of direction have you taken to build your excuse me, your resilient team?

Speaker 1: 0:59

okay.

Speaker 1: 1:00

So my resilient team or myself I can speak to both, but I guess personally, being resilient is just kind of part of my nature, I think, as a young professional, being open to learning from others and really being leaning into continuous improvement, and if you're willing to continue to learn, you're constantly iterating.

Speaker 1: 1:32

So throughout my career I have done that and I being willing to step outside of kind of status quo and being open to being super creative. I think that has really pushed me throughout my career. And my pivot that you referred to in my career is that I had run an executive search firm and I pivoted because I had a dream, speaking of ongoing learning, of going back to school and finishing my PhD. So I pivoted because I really wanted to lean into learning and challenge myself in that way. So I went back to school and completed my doctoral program and it was just at the end of that program that the idea of the business I'm now running came up and the opportunity presented itself. So resiliency and learning, resiliency and embracing new challenges has definitely been all throughout my career and also my personal life, so it's been evident quite a bit.

Speaker 3: 2:46

That's nice to hear.

Speaker 2: 2:50

Heather, if I can pick up on that, is this your first time owning a business, being involved as an entrepreneur, coming from a corporate background.

Speaker 1: 2:58

So no. So I started my career in human capital, hr-related roles and recruiting, talent acquisition, and then I left corporate America as my first really big push into being an entrepreneur was starting my own search firm, grayson and Graham. I ran that for about six and a half years, and it was at the end of that kind of time where I realized that I wanted to pivot and go back to school. So this is now my second entrepreneurial endeavor, running something that's entirely different, which is also just evidence of resiliency and learning. I'm running a tech company.

Speaker 2: 3:34

Outstanding. Paul, your experience is a little bit different. I know it's a very long tenured organization. You've gone through changes. I think you had a partner for a period of time and you've gone through a lot of leadership changes. Tell me a little bit about the resiliency you've gone through in the period of time you've had the business and the transition. I believe it's your second-generation owner of your organization Datasmith.

Speaker 4: 3:59

Thanks, rafi. Yeah, transition, well again was. I was a young man starting in a family business and, you know, coming in I'm sure I had only worked, only worked two, two years at a previous company, straight out of college. So, you know, is that enough time to gain any experience? Probably not, um, and I truly believe you know to, even to this day, experience matters, um, you know, um, what you learn from your experiences in life. Uh, as you go along, decisions you've made that were correct, and decisions that you made were maybe, you know, didn't hit the mark or got you to where you needed to be, and decisions that you made were maybe, you know, didn't hit the mark or got you to where you needed to be.

Speaker 4: 4:46

But the resiliency is to don't give up. You know a lot of people talk about that. You hear that people say, hey, you know, I had a dream, I had a focus and I was determined to get there. And nothing has been more relevant in my life to say I have a North Star and I march to that North Star every day. And you know, I get up every day and I love what I do. And you know, that's probably another ingredient that makes, I think most entrepreneurs very successful. Is you better love what you do? I mean, there's no, no ways around it. So to me, you know, loving what I do, getting up having a North Star and so forth has allowed me to. You know, there some obstacles, but certainly, you know I have celebrated many wins and I'm very fortunate to be where I'm at today.

Speaker 2: 5:37

Let's shift into a little bit of the teams, if we can, and maybe for both of you guys. I mean, it's no secret, you know, to really run a really good organization you need really good people and you need a very good, strong management team. Why don't we start with Heather? Tell us a little bit about your management team, what it's comprised of, the resiliency within the group and any changes that you've made that have improved and taken you guys to the next level. I know it's only been three years with this business, but tell us a little bit about your management team and your resiliency with that group.

Speaker 1: 6:10

Well, thank you, Rafi, for that question. Great question. You know, building resilient teams, I think, really begins with a good foundation and one of the things that was really important to me when I started this business was that we identified early on Paul just mentioned North Stars like what are our core values? So identifying as a team what we believed in and making sure we're hiring to those shared passions and core values and a shared foundation. So we did that by identifying really our first submission statement, but then also our business values and what. How we define those early on, really very early on, was through five different traits.

Speaker 1: 6:53

So it's I remember it by saying D, M, P, C squared. So D is directness and communication, M is mutual respect, P is personal accountability, personal responsibility. The first C is collaboration and the second is continuous learning and improvement. By establishing this foundation as a team, it really fosters an environment of trust and accountability which is the kind of like the fertile soil for resiliency. So for me, in building this team, having that really good foundation has been a springboard and really a through fret, a thorough sorry I'm saying that wrong but a through thread through the journey of this, these three years, which has been completely, you know, challenging in so many ways. We've overcome a lot of things and I think it's because we were able to overcome our challenges, because as a team, we were aligned early on in our core values and were able to be resilient because of the trust that we had built.

Speaker 3: 8:08

Paul, I've got a question for you about. Earlier, you shared with us that you're an EOS-run company as a sales acceleration. When it comes to people working with each other, collaborating, facing obstacles and elevating others above them for the team's purpose versus individual gain, can you share your experience of how you're handling that, especially from an EOS perspective, because that brings people together to communicate and identify obstacles?

Speaker 4: 8:39

Sure, yeah, scott. Well, again, heather, phenomenal what you just said. I mean, you know, those are the five dysfunction of a leadership team, basically in a nutshell, right? So great book for those that are looking for a great material, but certainly early on, and that's a book that we read as a team, rprs, we call it Right Person, right Seat.

Speaker 4: 9:02

You don't ever design a position for an individual. You design it in your mind as to the roles, responsibilities of which you want. And at that point you place people in that to see, you know, do they get it, do they want it, and they have the capacity to do it? And from a top-down model, getting, scott, the information down to everybody. Everybody has to be tied to a metric. Again, as I talked to you about, is the North Star, you know, what's your 90? And does that 90 reflect the 1?, does the 1 reflect the 3? And does it reflect the 10? And you know, yes, as a visionary like Heather, we see into the future. But we've got to get that message down to the troops to say, hey, here's our star Now. Let's now backtrack what we need to do today to make sure that we're all marching in the right direction. So, scott, again metrics-driven, I think. Quarterly reviews, check-ins with the employees at all times. Here's what we're doing right, here's what we're doing right, here's what we're not, you know.

Speaker 4: 10:08

Not death by meetings. You know a lot of people may disagree with this concept, but I mean again, I still think that a weekly we call it a level 10, right, a level 10 is just meeting. It's not what you thought. The meeting, hey, heather, you ran a great meeting. I'm going to give you a 10 today and you know, next week you didn't run a great meeting and I'm going to give you a seven. It's the issues and the to do's and everything that comes out of that. Did we hit our mark? And in the mud. Then you learn from that and you say how do I go back to getting a level 10? So get metric driven, scott, getting the information down to everybody, everybody's title number, which is then tied to the goals and the vision of the company.

Speaker 3: 10:57

Great. Thank you, and Rafi. You and I deal with a lot of different teams, some resilient, some just kind of in the status quo. But lately there's a lot of different teams, some resilient, some just kind of in the status quo. But lately there's a lot of emerging trends that are happening and future trends that are going to be coming our way. How do you incorporate with your small to medium-sized business owners and their teams, how do you adapt to all the future trends that are coming through from a team perspective and how the team's going to handle all of the new stuff coming at them?

Speaker 2: 11:31

It's interesting and Paul just mentioned EOS Paul and I get a chance to work together. He's a fantastic organization. I join his L10 meetings and see the true leadership and the collaboration that goes in Many of the companies that I work with. Same type of scenario in many of the L10 meetings or leadership meetings I was in one earlier this morning AI is prevalent in almost all of these issue lists or opportunities. Everybody has an opportunity and you know AI is really a lot of automation, right? So you know, depending on the size of the company, if you're a few million dollar business and you've been in this for six, seven, eight years or a longer period of time, well, quite honestly, there's a world that you know, you're in an entrepreneurial environment, but there's a lot of things that are, I wouldn't say, foreign, but you just haven't had a chance to deal with them, right? So, whether it be automations through a CRM system, paul and I have looked at implementing and adjusting a CRM system for the organization and it's not simply a place where you're putting in documentation and when you spoke to somebody, but incorporating, whether it be some AI technology or some automation to be able to remove some manual efforts and allow the company to act and work more efficiently. So I think a lot of the opportunities and technology elements are coming in and again, paul and his organization with Datasmith is all about technology and how to be able to utilize technology to become much more efficient, much more productive. So there's a lot of that in the corporate world and in small businesses right now as well.

Speaker 2: 13:01

I think it's a tough balance because it's such a buzzword and such a large element with AI. It's how do you incorporate it into your day-to-day without taking away any of the culture or the. At the end of the day, people buy from people, people want to work with people. The four of us are here on a conversation, enjoying each other's company and learning a little bit about each other, but at some point you can't have this without the human interaction and at least for both what you and I do, scott, it's in sales and people buy from people. There has to be that still that level of relationship. So incorporating some of that technology to make it more efficient, but not replacing that dynamic of the client engagement, is really where I see it and it's again, it's out there in almost every meeting I go to. What can AI do for us to be able to get us more efficient, but, you know, making sure it doesn't take away from the culture.

Speaker 4: 13:56

Scott, can I?

Speaker 2: 13:57

add to that. I can actually just finish, can I just?

Speaker 4: 13:58

add to that just because it's awesome. But I want to add, though, is people do business with people that they know like and trust, and that human element still is always going to be there. Ai is a wonderful tool. It's going to probably, you know, help again create, you know, create things for us, automate our business and so forth, but again, it still starts with a conversation and open and honest right, you know, it's just, you will never a conversation will never be replaced by technology. I still feel that every day you got to get up and you got to, you know, be okay having a conversation with somebody. Again, you know, maybe 70%, 80% of the world is replaced by technology, but is that last 20% of people need to know you, like you and trust you before they're going to venture into any type of agreement with you, so spot on.

Speaker 2: 14:55

If I could jump in Heather, I absolutely love your DMPC squared acronym. It actually reminded me of something and I spent about 15 years in the telecom telecommunications world as we were adjusting to voice and telecommunications and at that company, our four core values and it was COOP, c-o-u-p Caring, culture, open Communication, unmatched Service and Support and then Personalized Solutions, and it just it resonates with me. I'm like when you get an acronym like that and it was so top of mind, I haven't been there in 14 years. I'll remember that and I'll remember that forever because it was part of the culture and the structure we had. So I absolutely loved how you coined that and I didn't get the D, though Can you repeat the D one more time, because I was taking notes very quickly Directness and to d one more time because I was taking those very quickly and communication.

Speaker 1: 15:56

One of the things that, um, I've seen throughout my career is, um, how easily toxic cultures can slowly be cultivated by people not being direct with one another, and so that for me I wanted to nip that early and say we respect each other enough to be direct with one another, to communicate clearly and directly and take ownership for what we should take ownership for. So it's directness and communication was the D.

Speaker 2: 16:14

Outstanding. Paul, if I can shift over to you and I know it almost sounded similar to some of the things that you've got at Datasmith Can you walk us through your core values? And I know how important it is to you, especially in the EOS world, that you live, breathe and incorporate those core values. What are the core values at?

Speaker 4: 16:34

Datasmith. Well, again, we have six of them Continuous self-improvement. We have customer first, we have attention to detail, we have leadership, we have passion and we have you're going to put me on the spot here it says 6-1 it is leadership leadership passion common sense listen, I'm on screen. I'm sorry, it's terrible. The owner doesn't even know it's 6-1. But I do.

Speaker 3: 17:10

He does know, I do know.

Speaker 4: 17:11

But here's the other thing and we are happy. So one of our we call it a vision traction organizer and we want to do business with clients that exhibit those six. Every person that comes on is onboarded In 30 days. You have to recite your core values. We have our leadership team constantly on the call.

Speaker 4: 17:34

This week or this month, we're going to focus on this core value. If you come up our stairs in our office, there are six of them are listed on the wall. They're very visible on our website. So, again, we are very happy to share with the world. Hey, this is what Datasmith is all about and we truly hold anybody and everybody accountable to it. And we hire and fire by our core values. Again, we rate you. We call it People Analyzer. By our core values, again, we rate you. We call it People Analyzer. Now, across the six values, and we have a bar set. Certainly, if you fall a little below, certainly is it a performance plan Give you some suggestions on how you can improve. But eventually, if somebody doesn't live up to the core values, uncomfortable conversation we'll leave it at that.

Speaker 2: 18:28

Paul, I think you and I, when next time we get together, I've already done it, because we just created a sales playbook together and they're in that sales playbook. Year six can go LAP lap C3, similar to Heather's. I know, that's what I said.

Speaker 4: 18:40

I told you there was a third C and God yeah, as I said, I told you there was a third C.

Speaker 2: 18:43

Yeah, it's a third C and I'm like I was thinking to myself how could I? It's a common sense one.

Speaker 4: 18:47

Yeah, the owner should know the six core values. I'll take that one. So I didn't exhibit them today. I should be fired, just kidding.

Speaker 2: 18:58

Shifting gears for a second. I know we went through an interesting time a couple of years ago, right Probably around the time you started your business, heather. We had this little thing called the pandemic that turned the world upside down. Maybe I'll start with Scott, because I know that you had started your practice around that period of time and working with clients. How did the pandemic impact you and your practice and the clients you're working with, and how did that shift begin during the pandemic and then post-pandemic coming out of it?

Speaker 3: 19:25

As far as the pandemic's concerned, there was a lot of negative, obviously that took place, a lot of shutdowns, but positive came out of it as well. I was launching my business during the pandemic and I do get my business on referral and I was able to have a lot of discussions via Zoom, but it's not the face-to-face that I demand and that I really like to do. But what it did was you know, everybody knows that virtually meeting people is more acceptable and talk about resilience. This is something that really has been implemented to make people shift because of the environment. That implemented that to make people shift because of the environment. And having virtual meetings did open up the playing field, if you will, for customers.

Speaker 3: 20:12

I have quite a few like in my backyard, but I do meet them face-to-face. But it does give me an opportunity to work with customers virtually in other states or even across the Atlantic into Europe. It's a well-accepted practice and the business owners that I work with that are strictly virtual. I've had a couple just say hey Scott, I'm going to a factory, I'm going to step on your toes here, I don't want to meet you, and that's just something that's just kind of it's a given that some people just really would like to get efficient, be virtual and get to the point right away. But there's nothing that will replace face-to-face in my opinion. But what it does do is it just saves on hopping on a plane and a lot of time when people just want to get to the point and be efficient.

Speaker 2: 21:05

Yeah, outstanding, heather. How about yourself?

Speaker 1: 21:07

Same question as you started your business during this period of time in post and pre-pandemic thinking about a quote that's been really meaningful to me in the last three years and I think is important as far as the entrepreneurial journey, but also speaks to resiliency, and it's an Amelia Earhart quote and I'm going to paraphrase it a little bit. But she says the most difficult thing is the decision to act. You can do anything you want to do fears or paper tigers and the journey, the process itself, is its own reward. And I found the most difficult decision when you start a business is just getting started and there's so many unknowns, there's so many fears that are real and perceived that with grit, with persistence and resilience, you can really overcome just about anything. And I found that to be consistent with trying to solve problems from a technological perspective that we've done over and over again through our journey, but then also raising money in a time where VCs shut down, essentially stopped lending to small businesses that were free revenue during the time that we started, and so we had to iterate and think outside of the box and figure out how are we going to fund this business.

Speaker 1: 22:42

The CEO and myself both funded the MVP and the initial product, but beyond that we needed to raise money and we had to do it in a way that was definitely untraditional and it was really through friends and family and through the relationships you know we've all talked to several times about relationships on this call so far the relationships that we've built throughout our career and leveraging those and we raised five point.3 million in 30 days during one of the hardest times, at the tail end of the pandemic, to raise money. And it was because of the trust that we had built with people throughout our career that we were able to do that. And so sometimes those fears are paper tigers and sometimes they're real and you have to go to battle and that's really what we've done to survive.

Speaker 2: 23:30

That's fantastic. Shifting over back to Paul here, I know we briefly touched on it, but I know how proud you are of the team that you've developed, the people that are there making you look good every day. Again, I've had a chance to experience it firsthand myself in meetings. Tell me a little bit about the dynamic and the evolution to a degree that you've gone through in your leadership team and how you've gotten to where you are now. What you value about that leadership team that you've got in your organization.

Speaker 4: 24:04

Oh sure, as I said, you know, every entrepreneur, you have to wake up every day, you know, be focused, be determined that the decisions you're making are the right ones, but be okay if you fail. And why I say that statement to start that, rafi, is I have failed. I, you know, again, there were certain individuals that again I thought were the right people, right seat for the jobs that I had posted, and again they had the know-how, the knowledge to do it and experience. But you know, once you start getting going, and again, metrics and things like that, there are other things that you factor in. And again, metrics and things like that, there are other things that you factor in. Those individuals, you know, unfortunately, you know, didn't pan out.

Speaker 4: 25:06

I, you know, five years, as I really really worked on this leadership team. But you know, fast forward now to today. I mean trial by fire, rafi Heather, maybe the same thing. I mean just, you know, I mean I'm not throwing dots at a die board. I mean, again, everything is done. Maybe I have to take it back. I have to look at the roles, responsibilities. Is it too much? Is it not enough? Are the numbers right that I'm measuring them by? Do I have to look at other areas for experienced leadership team people to come in.

Speaker 4: 25:41

But boy, I'll tell you right now, it is something special, and Heather talked about it a little bit earlier, about that trust, then, and one of the things that we learned over the last few years is the accountability piece. We were maybe a little soft in the accountability like, hey, heather, don't worry about it, I understand you didn't get that done, you know. Hey, thumbs up, friend, you know we'll catch you next month and it's not necessary. You know you have to be cruel or demeaning about something if somebody doesn't hit a mark. But certainly that accountability is very important because in our pyramid, the accountability is the second to last and the results is the top. And some of the things that we weren't hitting Rafi was the results. Some of the things that we weren't getting Rafi was the results.

Speaker 4: 26:27

So I would just say is that, really hold your teams, especially your leadership team. You know accountable and you know we have to show up and produce every day and be okay. Again, back to the trust be okay that. Can I have this conversation with you. Does you know this happen or that happen?

Speaker 4: 26:49

And we believe in continuous feedback. Again, part of that why we have these weekly meetings and be okay to say, hey, you did this this week and this week you did this, but always have a plan. We're moving forward and this is how we're going to correct it. Maybe it was a process needed to be tweaked, maybe it was, you know, an employee. Maybe we need to again bring them in performance plan. Whatever the case may be, but be okay. So I think, rafi, you know through the years of doing it, trial by fire, practice and so forth does make perfection, and I really do feel today Gavis Smith has perfection in all of our teams. I mean not even to highlight just the leadership team, but it sets down with a special leadership team and I think then the employees feel that attraction and they know that they march with us.

Speaker 2: 27:46

Great answer, paul. I mean I can see the passion that you've got, just even in the way that you're answering those questions about your leadership team. So that comes through. I've got two quick items. One, scott, I'm going to come to you with a quick question here, but before that I want Paul and Heather to give some thought to something Again.

Speaker 2: 28:04

I've worked with a lot of the EOS-based companies as well, and they do one thing unique here at the company that I'm at today, over and above their segue and a couple of other things. They do something at the beginning, paul, that I absolutely loved, and it's tell me one thing you learned this week from a failure. Where did you fail and what did you learn? And I want the two of you guys to give some thought to not just this week, but something you've done in your career in the past that was a failure of some sort, and what you learned from it, what made you even more resilient. While you guys give a little bit of thought to that, I'll go over to Scott and Scott, you and I do something similar. We work with sales teams and we're always looking at KPIs and accountability and what you do for a living. Tell me a little bit about your structure process and what are some of the things you built for your clients that can help you know, identify and reduce the probability of a potential mishire and holding people accountable.

Speaker 3: 28:57

Good question, rafi. And setting up some infrastructure, a process where everybody is united, together and working in the same direction, really does reduce a lot of the chaos and a lot of the discontent that can happen with employees that walk into an organization that does not have structure. I will typically bring in other people to get their input first and then I'll start laying out a workflow in their CRM from lead all the way to close, each stage along the way and everybody's doing the same thing. It's a very regimented program and when it comes to identifying if some of these people are the right people or not, it's just. It's not necessarily you must conform to the norms, but everybody needs to work together and, as I mentioned earlier, elevate each other and work for the team and not yourself, and that really does identify whether or not a hire is the right person.

Speaker 3: 29:55

And, from a US perspective, do they get it, want it or do they have the capacity? Is the right seat in the right area? There's the right area. I'm sorry, but I know there's something in there, but actually in in if they're at a point where either they're not following the process or having to struggle with sales after a process has been implemented. You want to make sure the person has the right tools, are they in the right department, are they in the right uh, just in general organization, and do they share the core values? And this was brought up earlier If somebody doesn't share the core values of the company, that in itself is a reason to just try to get that person on the bus with them, and if they don't, maybe they're just not in the right seat and you can either find another area in the company or exit the person.

Speaker 2: 30:50

Yep, either get the butt in the right seat or get the butt right out. So let me go back and Heather, see if you could have some thought to an opportunity that you came across learning from a mistake or a failure.

Speaker 1: 31:05

That happened, sure sure, and actually it goes well with what Scott just shared. So it's an example of resiliency, not just as an organization, but also it's a good employee story. So what happened is oftentimes with technology, it takes five times longer and costs five times more than you expect. And before we learned that lesson, we had hired in advance of our big launch and we had overhired, and we didn't learn that until we launched and realized we thought the floodgates would open and we would have all these new users. And the fact is that it happened much slower than we thought and one of the employees that we had hired early on, in advance of our launch, was hired in a business development capacity and he very quickly. We didn't have anything for him to sell.

Speaker 1: 31:57

So we had to take a step back and that we look at people not from a necessarily a skill set perspective, but more holistically, for who they are, what their passions are, what their strengths are, from a, you know, emotional intelligence and things outside of technical capacity.

Speaker 1: 32:25

And we looked at this person and we asked questions about what their interest level was in other areas of the business, whether it be from our data side or our tech team, or from building our brand or social channels and we found another home for him to be in and he's iterated a couple more times but he stayed the course and I think resiliency and ability to be adaptable is a very high core value for us as a business, both personally and professionally.

Speaker 1: 32:51

So it was a great example of an employee who was resilient through a very challenging time because we did have to reduce some of our staff, but he was able to adapt and lean in to areas that were totally new for him. But he iterated and learned so much through the process and has now continued to iterate, is now on our marketing teams and then as a business. How we had to learn is just being willing to make those calls and to make those hard calls and also evaluating and letting people go and learning from that, but then also learning that you can find other places for people on the team if they're the right people but then also learning that you can find other places for people on the team if they're the right people.

Speaker 3: 33:30

And, heather, this is just an example of you being a resilient leader, knowing what options are out there, knowing how to communicate to this person, and that was handled perfectly. So, yeah, great job.

Speaker 2: 33:40

Yeah, yeah. What about yourself?

Speaker 4: 33:45

Yeah, well, I mean not as similar as Heather's the great story, heather, I again, for me this is going to be a surprising thing. Maybe most, but most entrepreneurs, I hope, you know we are the bottleneck in our own companies and at times, at times, right, I mean again, we start off with a vision and we're 100 miles an hour towards the future. And a lot of times, you know, I found early on and I learned pretty fast that I need to listen, not speak. I need to coach, not do. And you know, once I think you know there's a few others in there, but you know those are the two to me that resonate well and once I became patient, empathetic, tried to find out how they were going to attack it, did a little bit of coaching, gave it back to them and let them come off.

Speaker 4: 34:46

I again, I think that that's when I started to see better results and better performance from the, from the team. Because, again, at the end of the day, you know the owner, this is our baby, and I always just say you know, no owner wants to hear that their baby's ugly, nobody in this lifetime. I'm sorry, I know it's a funny thing, but it isn't so. You're always, you know you're always trying to be involved in in every aspect of it. You know, in sales and service and operations and and you know, and again, through great coaching and and programs like DOS and sales accelerates, stay in my lane and I stay in my lane and again I feel today that I'm a better coach and I listen and I really just trust the team and when they not necessarily fall, but if they feel like they're stuck, let's talk about it and you know we, you know I'll give maybe some feedback back.

Speaker 4: 35:46

This is how the way I would handle it and you know we, we, you know I'll give maybe some feedback that this is how the way I would handle it, but don't tell them that that's the way they need to handle it. Let's give them the tools and the mindset and let them figure it out. And I think once entrepreneurs get that with their staff, it's, it's a beautiful thing and you, you do see bigger gains in your business.

Speaker 3: 36:09

Hey Rafi, I've got a question for you, you and I deal with a multitude of teams, primarily sales teams, but they interact with operations leadership team. What kind of challenges have you had from a resilience perspective in working with these teams and how they operate a resilience perspective in working with these teams and how they operate.

Speaker 2: 36:32

You're talking about the operational groups with sales or the sales team operating With teams With the other. How do you?

Speaker 3: 36:37

handle challenges just in general when it comes from a resilience perspective with teams.

Speaker 2: 36:44

Yeah, you know what it all depends, quite honestly. I know that Paul mentioned it and Heather kind of alluded to it as listen, you know what? As Paul mentioned earlier, hey, I might be the bottleneck of my own company at times. I'm aware of it, I'm capable of understanding it and I want to go ahead. My job here is to be able to remove roadblocks and be able to work with the organization.

Speaker 2: 37:20

Where I've seen things work really well with leadership teams or organizations is when the visionary and kind of the CEO of the business is living that same life. If you will implementing those EOS methodologies, as Paul has done, is making sure that listen, you know what the rest of the company will work and collaborate well. If that's the way I actually go about my day and if that's how I'm structuring and setting up the tone, I've seen scenarios where and it doesn't work in a structured environment like EOS or other tools in place. If it's hey, here's what I do and all of you guys just follow suit. It's my idea, my recommendation, and if that type of an environment is predicated in the organization from the leader, the rest of the organization will follow suit and it'll be the exact same structure.

Speaker 2: 38:08

So you know many of the groups and and and you know the the companies I work with um. You know those are some of the things that I'm looking for in opportunities. I'm looking for a company that's looking for um someone to enhance and grow on top of something that's working. If the basics are there and the roadblocks are there, it works for me. It brings me joy. I do a lot of these assessment tools, whether it be predictive index or working in genius and all of these other tools. It all tells me the same thing. I reflect back and it's what brings me joy in my day-to-day and what brings me joy is working with really good clients that know they've got something there and they want to hone it and enhance it and produce it.

Speaker 2: 38:47

I've taken scenarios where somebody will come to me and I'd be curious to see your thoughts too, scott when somebody says, hey, I've got a crappy team here, I want to go ahead and punt and turn over my sales team, and I want you to do that. Well, that doesn't bring me joy. I'm coming in there as a partner and a consultant. Already the first thing if I do is remove two or three salespeople and then say I'm going to go ahead and build this out. I've got no credibility with the rest of the group and it doesn't bring me any joy. So collaboration and the team and the leadership team being all on the right path and structure together are things I look for. How about yourself, scott? Give me a little bit of detail on the teams you like to work with and what you noticed out there in Cohesion and different teams.

Speaker 3: 39:27

Because I was looking at it earlier from the challenges when it comes to working with New Zealanders, I find some challenges where people just don't want to work with each other, they're not team players, they don't want to adapt to the culture and they're just not fitting in. And it's something that kind of goes back to the core values. The person doesn't share the core values of the company and they're not adaptable to change and maybe they're just not the right person. But getting people together to work with each other in unison for the same goal, as Paul mentioned, for their North Star, the company's North Star if you've got an employee that's going for the West Star, okay, maybe try to get them back on track. But that's usually not going to be very easy to do and it's just something that you just got to make sure it's the right people with the organization.

Speaker 3: 40:21

To your point, rafi, that does not give me joy At the beginning. I have come into some businesses where they want me to just kind of be the hatchet man from the beginning. But I have been brought into organizations and you find you got to collaborate with the people, understand the situation and many times you don't have to do anything. Maybe the people need to be guided in a different direction, that is, more in unison towards the KPI of the companies, and maybe they are a good fit, but they just weren't managed properly. So that to me really gives me joy when I don't have to illuminate people, when they truly have a shot at a kind of different goal within the company from an increasing revenue perspective.

Speaker 2: 41:06

Yeah, Well said, scott. Increasing revenue perspective. Yeah, well said, scott. In the little bit of time that we have left, I wanted to kind of talk a little bit about how to round out your team. Shameless plug for us. Obviously, scott and I are both in a fractional capacity and that seems to be picking up quite a bit, especially for companies both your size. Right, it's not from a revenue standpoint, but the number of people and how scarce resources are and hiring full-time resources. So tell me a little bit and, heather, I don't know you as intimately well yet, but tell me a little bit more about how you've been able to round out your team and use resources, like shared resources or anything that's helped you enhance and kick up your organization.

Speaker 1: 41:46

Sure, sure. A couple of things I'd like to hit on around. That topic is first you know, being flexible and adaptable means sometimes leaning in and leaning out or working with contractors, small leadership, and we have done that throughout our journey.

Speaker 1: 42:02

You know, contractual relationships, consultancies that's a really great value add for our team, as we need to like lean in and ramp things up and then we can pair back, so that's been a real asset to our team. When you think about hiring to these core values and building resilient teams, I think that is really built in a very strong vetting process. So what that looks like for us is that early interview process that includes other team members, where you're interviewing to those core values, and then, once you've made a decision and hired a team member, then how do you keep those core values alive in the day-to-day tactical and practical work? How do you drive accountability, how do you drive resiliency throughout? And I find that keeping those values alive in our weekly meetings, having accountability built into how we review our progress weekly so that everybody knows what everybody else is doing and we're able to lean in and support one another.

Speaker 1: 43:13

Normalizing failure, allowing people to fail quickly and learn from those failures All of these things working together bolsters our core values and builds resilient teams. So it's about, yes, adapting and having those outside consultants and fractional leadership come in as adjuncts. Consultants and fractional leadership come in as adjuncts but then also building teams that can flex within the work as it ebbs and flows. But then they are also communicating well and aligning to the values from day one in the interview process through, you know, working together for years.

Speaker 3: 43:42

I got a quick question for Paul. It's kind of in the same context of the question went to Heather how do you round out your team? We know that you have gone a fractional route by bringing in Rafi from Sales Acceleration. Do you utilize any other fractional CFOs or operators or operations or any other teams that are to come help you?

Speaker 4: 44:05

Sure, yeah, great questions. And Heather again, awesome answer. I love there to come help you. Sure, yeah, great questions. Fine, you know, we're kind of like heather again, awesome answer. I love your answers there.

Speaker 4: 44:11

I feel you know, alive with you and and you know you're how you handle your company. It's similar to how we do ours. Um, you know. But scott, you know, I, I believe in coaches, I really do. Uh, I mean, you know, outside of the great work, sales acceleration is Don Raffi, you know, you know not only has done a great job, but we've become very good friends and I've always felt that that is very important.

Speaker 4: 44:37

Not necessarily you have to have the friend labeled on a working relationship, but I think it really does, you know, help because we can actually go outside the business and kind of get to know each other and so then when we come together again it aligns to what Heather was saying about you know, the trust and the values and all that other stuff. But to answer your question, yes, I mean I've had a fractional CFO, I've had a fractionate operation. I've had a fractionate operation when, you know we had an operations person going building the leadership team wasn't, you know, right person, right seat, but again, so early on Scott in that journey, and you know he was a 10 year friend, so it makes those decisions very hard for it, per nota, right. So, rather than just saying, hey, you know this isn't working and brought somebody else in to see you know, was it me? You know, bring somebody else in to help.

Speaker 4: 45:39

But you know, certainly, recruiting, you know we, we have a great relationship with our recruiters. So, again, finding talent and leadership, finding talent in engineering, even our implementer. We've had two great implementers. First, I call her our mother. She really was our mother. Two years, scott, this woman, god bless her. She earns every stripe and she's moved on to bigger and better things within the EOS world, but we were one of her first clients and this isn't easy. This isn't easy.

Speaker 2: 46:17

Go ahead and give her a name. It's worth a play.

Speaker 4: 46:19

Again, if you look her up, she is great and she again taught me something when we get to our two-year, and typically in EOS, taught me something when she we got to our two year and typically in the U S they get you do a two year, you kind of have a graduation Um, and then at that point they kind of they feel that you should have a good handle on the tools. And again we did um, maybe not everyone we were using better. You know some we were using better than others better, you know some we were using better than others, um, and I always just felt that, you know, having that uh, an outside voice, uh, when maybe we couldn't see stuff internally, uh was important. And and then she actually um made an introduction to another gentleman, stas out of, uh, buffalo, new york, with I can't, I don't even want to pronounce his last name, but Stas out of Buffalo, new York. What came up? Great. And my final message on that is, although the message is the same, she came at it one way, I think, more of a mother nurturing thing and she really taught us.

Speaker 4: 47:25

The program Stas again, again uses the same principles, the same terms, same worksheet, everything. He attacks it differently, and I think that that was the once we learned it. Uh, she turned it over and he was the dad. He came in and had to tell us you know, hey, smart, now do this, do that and what. And you know so we've been two years now with Stas and so, you know, we're in our fifth year and it's just, it's been amazing.

Speaker 4: 47:53

So you know, like I said, I am an advocate for outside resources to help your business Because, again, it's lonely at the top, right, heather, it's. You know. I mean, who do we go to at the end of the day? And, yes, we look at our leadership team, but even just like owner to owner, hey, heather, let me run something by you. This is what I'm seeing. Are you seeing the same thing? Peer groups. Um, scott, again, shout out to peer groups. If you're in a peer group as an entrepreneur, uh, same industry, for now I think you need advisors, consultants, fractional people, yeah, whatever that I think it just makes a world of difference. You know, because, again, advisors consultants, fractional people, whatever.

Speaker 4: 48:32

I think it just makes a world of difference Because, again, we are teachers indirectly, but we're always students and that's how we started and that's how I want to finish as a student. I want to continue to learn. That's great.

Speaker 2: 48:41

Very well said. That's a great segue, and I know we're talking about resiliency and resiliency within your business, within your day-to-day. But both of you guys, Heather and Paul, thank you so much for joining on this podcast and hearing a little bit about the resources that you're utilizing where you've got a gap, where there's opportunities, who to bring in, and both of you guys talking about the fact that, hey, I don't know everything. Both of you guys talking about the fact that, hey, I don't know everything. Continuous learning seems to come up in both of your core values and you obviously live and breathe that mantra, so thank you so much for both putting in the time and speaking to Scott and I.

Speaker 3: 49:17

Scott, I'll let you kind of finish it off from here. No, it's just to say, guys, thank you for your time. It's been very insightful. I came to my position thinking I knew everything about sales. And talk to people like his, like there's a nugget I didn't know. You guys have been great.